Note: This article has been updated slightly since it's original posting on the alt.tv.tech.hdtv newsgroup.  Updates include new information and added hyperlinks. Sep 25, 2003.   For more discussion by experts, see www.avsforum.com.


Subject: Re: Can you record HDTV off a HDTV Cable box
From: Put 030516 in email subj to get thru
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:27:27 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv

PNeski wrote:
just wondering ,I saw the d theatre deck dosn't have analoge in (HDTV)

Generally, all consumer HDTV recording solutions are actually referring to recording MPEG2 HDTV signals, *not* 3 cable component analog HDTV signals.

Typical sources for MPEG2 HDTV video signals are over the air broadcasts (ATSC signals).  The Samsung SIR-T165 is an example of an over the air (OTA) tuner/decoder box that outputs MPEG2 HDTV data.   There are also one or two DirectTV satellite decoder boxes that output HDTV MPEG2 data.   In the above examples,  a Firewire digital connection (aka IEEE 1394, aka i.Link) is used to output the MPEG2 HDTV data.

The JVC HM-DH30000 DVHS recorder is an example of a recorder than records MPEG2 HDTV data from a Firewire connection. (http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?productId=PRD4603000).   Note, this recorder cannot record analog HDTV 3 cable component video (the typical output of a cable TV tuner/decoder box)

There are no consumer solutions around for recording HDTV off of analog component (3 cable) outputs.  The component analog output just has too much bandwidth to easily record onto tape.

There are realtime HDTV quality analog to digital converter (ADC) & MPEG2 encoder packages, but again, they're way too expensive for consumers. (If anyone thinks I'm wrong on this, please please correct me)

[Update: There is now a Blackmagic DeckLink HD PCI MPEG2 encoder card that runs on the Apple G5 Macintosh.   The cost of the card is about $2k and the cost of the G5 is roughly $3K.   Sep 25, 2003]

The vast majority of cable boxes do not have Firewire/MPEG2 outputs (eventhough the MPEG2 data is probably used somewhere in the guts of the cable boxes).  

The www.169time.com company that one of the other responder posted appears to be taking the approach where they physically modify the cable box to add an Firewire/MPEG2 output.  However they can't do this for the  Scientific Atlanta models 3100/4200 or Motorola model 5100 cable boxes (which I have).  169time has an offer to send in your cable box for evaluation, which sounds sort of flaky to me.

Many HDTV's support a DVI raw data digital video interface.  This solution uses uncompressed HDTV data (not encoded/compressed into the much lower data rate MPEG2 format).   Again, the data rate for DVI is way too high to easily record onto tape.   But just in case, almost all future DVI interfaces will include HDCP (hi def content protection) encryption to prevent unauthorized copying/recording.

Both cable TV and over the air TV transmit MPEG2 data modulated onto a radio frequency signal, but they use different modulation schemes (8-VSB for over the air, QAM for cable).   This means that tuners which can handle over the air signals are different from tuners which can handle cable signals.  I'm sure there's some good technical reason for this, but I don't know what it is.

I don't understand why no one makes a cable TV box with MPEG2/Firewire outputs.   Maybe because the FCC mandated HDTV reception for over the air broadcasts, but not for cable TV, making HDTV tuner technology a common off the shelf thing, so 3rd party manufacturers could easily get their hands on the chips to decode over the air HDTV.    This is just conjecture.   [Comcast uses the Motorola DCT5100 as it's HDTV cable TV set top decoder box.  The DCT5100 does have a DVI output, but it's currently disabled by firmware in the box]

IMHO, the entertainment industry blames the falling music revenues on digital pirating and they're gonna make damn sure the same thing doesn't happen with movies.   HDTV scares the crap out of them and they're pulling out all stops to make sure there's no consumer technology able to copy HDTV without heavy encryption/authorization/content protection technology (except if it's broadcast over the air with commercials).

See http://www.timefordvd.com/tutorial/DigitalTVTutorial.shtml for a background tutorial on the HDTV technology involved.

I bet this was a long response than you were expecting ;)

-- 
Ben in DC
PublicMailbox@benslade.com (put 030516 anywhere in the subj to get thru)